Emily Wingfield

I got the chance to hear Emily Wingfield teach about the Enneagram in a class she created for a group of therapists in Atlanta. She was so funny, so warm and authentic, the teaching just flew by. Emily’s life goal is to increase her own compassion and the compassion of others, and that perspective just emanates from her in this interview. She walks us though how it was pain, not success, that led her to find the Enneagram, which led to both her own personal transformation and becoming a teacher of the Enneagram. Her story of becoming is relatable and inspiring.

While at the University of Georgia, Emily served on the Arch Society and studied Consumer Economics (with a minor in Child and Family Development). Emily has always loved understanding personalities and interpersonal relationships. For years she could often be found reading a Myers-Brigs, DiSC, or self- help book....that is, until she learned the Enneagram five years ago. Since then she is constantly reading books, listening to podcasts, attending trainings and trying to gain as much Enneagram knowledge as possible.

Since learning the virtues, vices and words that describe her motivations and behaviors as an Enneagram Type 9 she has been able to make dramatic changes to her life. After reading The Road Back to You by Ian Cron and Suzanne Stabile and then attending a two day workshop with the authors, Emily was hooked. Through providential timing, she then had the opportunity to teach an Introduction to the Enneagram class at her church (PRUMC). The class went so well that she was asked to teach it again and again…

She now teaches Introduction to the Enneagram classes throughout Atlanta, often in churches and most recently at Emory University's Osher Lifelong Learning Institute (OLLI).

This interview made me feel encouraged just as a human, as Emily discussed “setting the table” for people to grow in compassion by learning more about themselves and others. She lights up when talking about her work and what she has learned, and it is contagious.

(Emily shares part of this beautiful quote from Beatrice Chestnut, author of The Complete Enneagram, in this interview, “Before we do the conscious work of self-development, we are the seeds of what we may become. To transform from our “acorn-self” to our “oak-tree self,” we must traverse our underground territory - allow our defenses to crack open and break down - and consciously integrate our disowned feelings, blind spots, and shadow traits so that we can shake off the limiting outer shell of our personality and grow into all that we are meant to be. Nature brings us part of the way, but to fully manifest our potential, we need to make conscious efforts to grow - and the Enneagram can guide us in this transformation.”)

LISTEN to the interview here:

(Transcript of Audio Recording below)

Monica:
I, you know, I first heard about you from our mutual friend Kate. And then I had the opportunity to come and do a teaching with you or be taught by you, the Enneagram for therapists, basically you created for us. It was amazing. I have so many people coming in here all the time that just were talking about the Enneagram and I honestly had no idea. I had never heard of it. I know many, many people. It's so funny because it's so prevalent in some places and other places. Everyone's like, what? Yeah, yeah. Which it seems crazy now because now I see it everywhere. Yeah. Um, but you were such a fun teacher and I think being profound and deep and helping people learn things and being fun is like an exceptional skill.

Emily:
Well, thank you for it. It took a long time for me to own this, but I do feel like something that makes my classes special, that we actually do have a lot of fun. Like, ironically, we're talking about shame, anger, and fear a lot, but we really can laugh about it. And I think that kind of laughter situation makes it okay for people to share their stories in a very grace filled, loving....

Monica:
Yes. 110%. And you do that. Really?

Emily:
Well thank you.

Monica:
But what I wouldn't, you know, I want to start just kind of hearing, you know, what you do exactly as an enneagram teacher, but then your story of this isn't, you know, this isn't something that you maybe even knew you were going to do.

Emily:
Oh, no, no. I mean, I totally say that. I mean, it fell in my lap like that two ton boulder or something in a very good way.

Emily:
Yeah. Directly from God. Um, wow. Because it's all, yeah. Yeah. I have always loved, um, personality tools and interpersonal relationships and things like that. And so I used to love Myers Briggs and disc and love languages and all those kinds of things. And then basically when I was, I've been at my, I have a 10 year old and a seven year old and, um, especially those early toddler years where I was so lonely and I was a stay at home mom and I felt like my brain was rotting because, uh, you know, couldn't have conversation with two nonverbal kids at that time. Right. And, um, so I kind of started to get into the Enneagram then and I would watch youtube videos. It's British guy named Ian McNay and then, uh, podcasts kind of started to get going. And so I would listen to podcasts while I was like playing trucks with my kids and then started taking notes for myself about all of it cause I was so interested.

Emily:
And I joke that I started having enough papers that I put them in a half an inch binder and then I had enough papers that I putting them in a one inch binder and then a two inch binder. And it just grew and grew, but it was all just for myself. Like it was just, I was fascinated by it. And then, um, the road back to you came out, which was by Ian Cron and Suzanne Stabille and I read that. And then I went to a two day training workshop really. And um, and that was a big deal for me to say to my husband, like, I want to go to this cause it was an Asheville. And so I went there and then this is where it was the grace of God that, um, I went there, took all these notes. I mean, my hand was about to fall off.

Emily:
I took so many days and came back and our church, Peachtree road, United Methodist, um, we, I saw in the flyer that they were going to do a book study on the book. And so I went, this was a big act of courage for me. I went to the minister and said, Hey, I've been to this two day workshop if you would like me to help you with this class. I know what we're talking about it. And she looked at me and said, oh my goodness, I actually don't know anything about this. I was going to have to teach it to myself to teach the class. I just had to, every minister had to choose a book and so I just chose this one but I was going to have to learn it first. Will you just teach the whole class?

Monica:
How did you get the courage to ask that too? That's kind of what, you know, I feel like that is so many of us have like an idea we're excited about but we don't take that next step. What happened for you to say that and then it turns out this pretty astounding, you know, story, but what, how did you get the courage to do that?

Emily:
Well, something, Kate has taught me, and I do love this phrase, it, it's true. People change when they are in enough pain. And I honestly, I was in enough pain that I was so tired of being a stay at home mom. And so my brain, I was like, I am meant to do more than this. And I am just, I was very, uh, uh, ironically I wasn't in a great place, which is what gave me the courage to say I have got to do something with my life because it kind of feels like I'm rotting away.

Monica:
So it was the pressure of that pain that got you to be brave.

Emily:
Yes. That was exactly what it was. So I think that's actually a good thing for your listeners. It's like it wasn't that I was on top of the world. I would actually in such pain that I was like, I have got to do something with my life because I'm in such pain right now.

Monica:
I think that is so important cause I think when we see other people being successful, like if someone were to look at you from the outside, they would say, wow, well Emily just, she's just really brave and just living her best life. You know, that that's how she started that.

Emily:
That is so true. That's a very good point. Yeah. And I do think, um, that's, I think one reason people seem to enjoy my classes is that I will very openly share about my pain.

Emily:
And, and it is only through all of the bad times that are, is what has helped me learn all of these things. Like all the things I've learned about which are the numbers are types is because when I've been in pain that's when I'm most open to it.

Monica:
Wow. So the vulnerability of acknowledging your own pain has helped you learn better and teach better? Probably. I mean, you are so relatable when you teach. I can affirm that.

Emily:
And I can actually say that I have really figured out that my target demographic, um, which it's not like I set out, I've just kind of noticed who takes my classes over and over again. And it really seems to be on average 35 to 45 year old women, often usually around 40 year old women. And I think it's because we're tired. We are tired. Like the idea of the Enneagram is that, um, you're born this essence and then you to make it through life you learn to put on all these masks and to adapt to make it through life. But the beauty of the Enneagram is that once you realize that you're going to be okay on your, you, you can survive without all these masks, you learn to take these masks off. And I really think that 40 is kind of this portal into opening up into your pain, kind of, and just being like, I'm tired of doing, like, I'm tired of this. I need to figure out a new system or something. And um, wow. So people are open to acknowledging their pain. Like most people don't take my class when they're, when they're doing great, they're doing great. They don't think they need any help. Yeah, they're doing fine. Yeah. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right. And uh, that's amazing.

Monica:
Tell me what you know at, so the, the story of you kind of got the courage to ask the pastor or you know, about this, and then she was like, please teach this. Tell me in that process that was maybe your first teaching. Yes. And then as you've gone forward, what are some of the doubts that you've heard or had to, you know, as we're speaking of pain or what are some of the doubts that have come for you or still come for you as you've had to choose to kind of be brave and to move forward?

Emily:
Yes. When it's so funny because as soon as you talked about that first teaching, I had a flashback to it and uh, yeah, just to give encouragement to anyone that's listening that first time I seriously thought I was going to throw up before the first class and it was free. I mean it was like, it was a free class that basically it was mainly my family and friends that had signed up to take it. I mean it was, it was very low.

Monica:
Low bar.

Emily:
Yeah. I thought I was going to throw up. I really got so nervous that I had forgotten to breathe. And so I actually thought it was about to faint in the middle of the class. And so I had to sit, I was standing teaching and I had to sit down and I said, ooh, I'm getting a little hot. And luckily one of my mom's friends had a mint and she just passed it to me and I ate this mint and then I, I called on someone that I knew was really talkative so that they would talk a lot so that I can breathe. Not Pass out. But so yes. So it started rough. And actually before almost every class I still get a little nervous and say lots of prayers.

Emily:
Um, but back to the, the hurdles, I mean I have definitely had to, I really just try to let go and this has increased my faith more than anything because I have realized like I just have to go out there and put the class out. And I mean, I've had to cancel a class before in a good way that no one signed up. So I was like, you know, and I'd rather no one sign up then four people and I have to decide, do I make it a class or not? Is it too small? Um, but I mean that, that felt like a little hit to the ego when I was like, okay, we're going to scratch that class. And I'm Kate and my husband and my sister and my mom have definitely heard me in the throws of like, no one signed up. What am I going to do?

Emily:
What am I spinning my wheels? This is, why should I do this? I don't know. And um, yeah, there been lots of moments like that.

Monica:
What did they tell you in those moments or what, you know, it maybe not the exact quote, but you know, the, your cheerleaders, like your crew. What did they tell you to kind of help you? All right, well, I'm going to get up another day. I feel called to this. I'm gonna try again.

Emily:
Yeah. Um, I think it was a lot of getting perspective of Emily. You know what, if that class doesn't make it, it's okay. Like you, luckily for me, I hadn't put that much money into it. So it's like, if that class doesn't make it, yeah, you just cancel it. That's not the end of the world. And it's not because of you, it's because you have now learned, like for instance, now that I've taught, um, a year and a half, I've learned the school calendar.

Emily:
So actually less than out there for anyone doing it along with school counter people, not people will not sign up for anything in August until they have found out their kid's sports schedules. So yeah, I learned, I learned that the hard way. I thought, well, when school started, people will sign up for things. I quickly learned that was the class I had to cancel because nobody will sign up until they knew their kids' schedules and then they can know whether they'll be free.

Monica:
Wow. And so that, that then ends up being sort of a knowledge point about your business and how you're running it rather than, should I be doing this?

Emily:
Exactly. And so I would have to, I'd try to reframe it basically like, wow, now I learned that lesson and hurt. But now I've learned that lesson. And then as I talked to more people in this, I talked to Sue Allen at Northside American United Methodist, and she said, Oh yeah, I've been doing, I think she said she's been doing women's ministry for over 10 years.

Emily:
She's like, Oh yeah, I've learned the kids' school schedule. And so then I could say to her, well, could you want to tell me, download that for me? Yeah, go on and tell me your lessons learned. I will say I'm very big about asking other people like, what lessons have you learned that you could go on and tell me so that I don't have to learn it.

Monica:
That's awesome. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, um, why do you think people are so fascinated with the enneagram right now? It is a thing... Everywhere.

Emily:
Yeah. Well, I think for the people that have done a little bit deeper dive into it, they get how transformative it is because it teaches you the words to be able to describe all that you've thought and felt before. But now you have the words to say it...like I, and also it's a twofold way that sometimes people think I'm the only one that thinks like this.

Emily:
And so first of all, it makes them feel better. Like, Oh, I'm not the only one. There are other people that think like this. And then also it makes people feel better that, oh, there are others that think like this. And so it's more normal. But then there are also other, so they're more people that think like me, but then they're also eight other ways to think and now I'm not so frustrated by them.

Monica:
So, so that we all have this intrinsic need to feel like we're not the only one that we belong. So it satisfies that. And then it helps you have empathy for other people. Like what? That I must drive them crazy if they tried to make crazy. Right.

Emily:
The empathy and compassion and that, that's what I'm, I would say I'm most proud of actually. That's like my life goal is to increase my own compassion and to increase the compassion for others, which it's not my job to do.

Emily:
But I like to set the table so that if they feel ready to deepen their compassion, I do think this is the most profound tool to do that with.

Monica:
That is really beautiful. It was a beautiful life goal. I love it.

Emily:
Thank you. I feel like there are people that are called to go protest to do social justice and it makes perfect sense, especially once I learned there types that yes, that is your fire in your belly. Um, I have a more of a slow burning, let's gather around the fire versus go, which is fine. And that's the beauty is not for them. Go do what you need to do. Good for me. This is what I need to do, all, do our own things. And as long as we're trying to move the world forward and spread love and compassion, go for it.

Monica:
Go for it.I love it. Which kind of leads into my question of what have you learned? This is too, this is too big of a question for any interview, but just a little tidbit of what you've learned about yourself through the enneagram.

Emily:
Yeah. Uh, I, oh my gosh, there really is so much. Um, I have, I've really, I think the most, I guess I'd say the most shocking thing I've learned is how much more capacity I have within me that I never knew I had. So, uh, Beatrice Chestnut is a big Enneagram person and she has this great paragraph about, um, we're all like acorns and we, but we can become oak trees. So many of us live our lives like acorns and just, we think that's it. And that, and I always joke because I use that in the closing of my class. I'm not a big oak tree yet, but I am that little sapling that's like I'm out of the ground.

Emily:
I'm growing and just realizing that it's okay, we all have this subconscious feeling that, and it depends on each type, but like I used to have this subconscious feeling that if I wasn't connected or if I disagreed with someone or had any conflict, that I really almost felt like I was going to die. And I mean, again, this is very subconscious physical feelings.

Monica:
Sure, but it was that deep.

Emily:
It was that deep. And every person has their own subconscious issues about that. Um, and so I think realizing like, Oh wow, I can say my opinion in the world doesn't collapse. And I can say my opinion and sometimes people listen. I can say my opinion sometimes people like it. Yeah. I mean I it is, I would just say I'm shocked and amazed and uh, and that we all have that capacity. I mean it's as Terry Moore says like to play big wow.

Monica:
Wow. And all the things we can learn about ourselves when we do. Yes. Yeah.

Emily:
That were so, and I, that's what I get to see in my classes. I mean literally, and it can be tiny things. I just had this sweet woman write me and um, she's an Enneagram nine as well. And her email was Jess. And so I wrote back and said, oh, just thank you. And she said, I'm really trying to work on standing up for myself. It's actually Jessica and I'm telling you as we, as you know from Europe is, yeah, that's a big thing.

Monica:
You wanted to clap, clap through that email.

Emily:
I was so proud of my friend. That's an enneagram two. That's a helper who it's hard for them to accept help. Who came to class one day and said, Emily, I let the man from Publix walk out, walk me out with my groceries, and all Enneagram twos are like, oh my gosh.

Emily:
Just like we all have these things that it's like what? Like stepping into those things. It's huge. I love it. I love it.

Monica:
Um, what is the best way to discover your type? Good question.

Emily:
Of course. I would say take one of my classes, but actually I would say take any one.

Monica:
I can echo that. Your class was really great. It really was and it helped me.

Emily:
Thank you. But there are other, I would direct you to other great enneagram teachers in Atlanta as well. But uh, Suzanne Stabille, says something that I really love of the Enneagram is solitary work that you cannot do alone. And so you need to read the books, listen to the podcast, delve into it for yourself. But really it's being in community with other people and usually in a classroom setting and talking about it that you hear their stories.

Emily:
And that's what the beauty of the classroom setting is, is I can teach about enneagram threes who are the achievers, you know, I teach an hour per number type, but when we haven't any room three in the class, and then she raises her hand and says, Oh, when I was in college and I did this and then blah, blah, blah. And then when someone else in the class say, I really feel like my husband might be at Instagram three, can you tell me why he does this? And I mean, we are, it's not like we can get into their inner stuff, but we can give more hints of why. So it's really, you do need that group dynamic.

Monica:
You need that community to learn from other people's stories. Yes. Okay. Okay. Which I think is one of all of our favorite ways to learn it is it's those stories that really stick with people.

Monica:
What do you think about, um, taking tests online? And I, and I ask this because it comes up, you know, a enneagram is now in the therapy room for it. I mean, it is, people are just coming in. They come in, they announced their type and you know, before I had no idea, but now I'm trying to catch up. But you know, what are you thinking about the online test? Because people, people ask too like, well what should I do?

Emily:
Yeah. Um, the one we usually direct. Okay. So first of all, a lot of Enneagram experts don't really like the test because the Enneagram is based on your motivations. So the test, it's trying to quiz you on your motivations, but there's a very good chance that you've never thought about your motivations. I mean, true, you've seen your behavior, but you haven't thought about your motivations.

Monica:
Very true.

Emily:
And we also sometimes test the way our idealized self would be like, oh, I want to be like this. So if you want to take the test and I get it, I totally get why there's one on Enneagram Institute, which is a new look for the r h e t I RHETI is how they say it and it's $12. And that is a very good validated one. But any Agrium tests are still depending on the test only, right on average around 75% of the time. So it will give you a good starting point, but only use it as that. The phrase I would love to use for the Enneagram is hold on loosely, but don't let go. So just hold on loosely to that idea and delve into all the numbers. Because the joke we always say is don't go out and get a tattoo just yet because there is very real possibility that for a variety of reasons you might be showing up a little differently in the test or something and that's okay.

Emily:
It's, it's okay, but just don't go around.

Monica:
Don't assume that that's, that's the final thing. And that was my experience on the task that I tested for two numbers. And then, um, through reading the book that The Road Back to You that you recommend and we all read before the class and then the class, that's how identified my number could. Yeah, I mean it was one of those two numbers but it was the second of the two and I was kind of like, well I'm not, I don't know, I'm probably not that.

Emily:
That's actually a great point. Often if you read something and you're like, oh my gosh, or if it makes you kind of tear up or something, there was a very good chance that could be you because yeah, we don't want to because it's hit so close to the core apps that you don't want it.

Emily:
And a perfect example of that is I had a woman that really read every single Enneagram book in the world and took my class and all this and it took her a year to really figure out her type and I can circle back with her. And I said, why do you think it took a year? And she said, I think I wasn't ready to accept that was my type. She said, because the first time I read it, I cried and then for a year I denied it. I was like, I'm not that, I'm not that, I'm not that. So it's okay. It's in it. That's where it comes to letting go of. It'll come to you when it's, when it's, when it's the right time, when you're ready to hear and accept it is,

Monica:
It is a test or, or, or a typeology that you have to be vulnerable to really get the most out of it.

Monica:
How, how much do you see people really coming alongside each other in these classes kind of having this group vulnerable experience that you have to know your, your motivations and your fears and your tendencies in a way that is quite vulnerable. How does that bond people?

Emily:
Um, really sweetly that by the end often they'll be like, let's get together for coffee after theirs. And that's actually something I'm really proud of that I didn't realize I would be creating. But there really is this group of friendships. And that's actually my next business plan, which I haven't figured out yet, but is how to get into more conversation groups because they're been actually 130 people now that have taken my class. And so mainly in the Buckhead area. Um, and so I'm like, cause I do think it could just start that you just jump in the deep end already with friendships and it's really sweet.

Emily:
Can I speak to one thing, when you're talking about the vulnerability, that is also why, um, I only liked people to take my class that want to take my class. So when people say, Oh, I'm going to bring my husband, I'm like, no, no. If he wants to come, I would love for him to come. But it is not, no one should be forced into this, are forced into having to do it, keep the focus on yourself, work on yourself. And maybe they'll come along and maybe they won't. And you know what? You're already healthier. So that's already one person in the relationship that's doing better. And, and usually people that don't like it, they might not eventually come around and wanting to take the class, but they come around to seeing the good changes in you and they're like, okay, maybe this isn't quite so crazy.

Emily:
I still don't want to do it, but I'm not so scary. It's not scary and I'm not going to make fun of you anymore about it. Yes, yes.

Monica:
And you know, why do you think, and this is a huge question too, but that society right now or you know, certain parts of society, right? Because there's all different parts, but um certain groups are so interested in this. I mean it's just what do you think is, is happening for people that they really want to know? I mean, some of it I think is like you said, people get tired and they're in pain and they just kind of want to understand. Um, but, but why do you think it's so much a part of people's conversations now?

Emily:
Um, one thing I think of is, and this is just my own theory, and I'm actually feeling a little nervous about saying this, so I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I actually truly believe that our God is so great and all knowing and all powerful that the Enneagram has reached this tipping point right now because we are so fractured and so separated and so black and white and on either side and Republican, Democrat and I, I think God has given us many tools for healing.

Emily:
But I actually really think this is so perfectly timed to become so popular at a time where we need healing more than ever. And every person, not every person, but most people that come into my room or did the classroom say leave saying, gosh, people just don't piss me off anymore as much anymore. Like I just get it and I have more compassion for them and whatever, you know, it's just not that big of a deal what I feel. So anyways, that is, that's, that's, that's one reason. And I think people are catching on to how fractured it is and they don't like it. And they're like, okay, this tool seems to be helping us. So let's go with it.

Monica:
I would imagine that people are who are awake and noticing how fractured our whole country is, are hungry for some sense of um, not being so black and white, not being so having so much hatred and divisiveness.

Monica:
That makes sense. I mean, because that is where most people will agree, our country has found itself

Emily:
And I think the church may be used to be a place more for that healing and then lots of issues and hurts and pains. And so this is like us as actually I'm going to teach a class a bit, Mary and Martha's place and they were talking about that they call themselves sometimes church adjacent. I feel like this is like church adjacent because it, because you really can, the Enneagram is a psycho spiritual tool, so you can definitely just do it as a psychology tool, but you can really add in the spirituality and that is truly the depth and the presence. And, um, that, that's where it shines and sings and really becomes more beautiful.

Monica:
Wow. Um, would you be comfortable telling us like a sentence or two about each type?

Monica:
I mean, I know that that is so much, you know, I know too, enneagram types of, so much complexity, but just just for people listening, you know, each type.

Emily:
Yeah. Well, and actually to share my own vulnerability, I brought my own cheat sheet and I'm saying that because I thought I know what one of my things about classes to say just to be us cause I, yeah, So I do normally teach about almost an hour on each of these types of, but you set it up, well this is one sentence. What normally takes 60 minutes, but that's okay.

Monica:
Yes. Which would never, never ever, you know, encompass it all, but just like a little teaser. How about teaser?

Emily:
Teaser. That's a good one. So, um, there are nine different types and there's one is not better than the other, it's just how it is. Um, so Enneagram ones are sometimes called the perfectionist or reformers and they just really, they have a strong inner moral compass and they, they just want things to be the right way, which sometimes to them can feel like the perfect way.

Emily:
And they have a strong inner critic and Enneagram twos are the helpers are the befrienders and they have a very strong need to help and befriend others. And um, they find their identity through how they are in relationship with others. Enneagram threes are the achievers are the motivators and they are very success oriented, but it's how success is defined from their family of origin or um, their own culture. But they feel the need to achieve or be very good or the best at what they do. And Enneagram fours are kind of, the Romantics are the individualist and they have a strong desire for, um, just not for things not to be common for things to be unique and beautiful and deep and depth. And they have, they sometimes can have a sense of melancholy, but it's very comfortable to them. They do not feel the need.

Emily:
That's okay. You don't have to try to change their melancholy for them. Fives are the investigators are the thinkers and they are very much up in their heads thinking and analyzing and they feel like if they can just master a certain topic or amount of information than they can feel safe, and secure. They, um, they have a huge thirst for knowledge and usually are, are up in their minds more than out. And An extroverted sense, uh, Enneagram six is are their loyals, this guardians, um, sometimes also the questioners, they'll kind of two types of sixes. There's one type that um, they're very focused on the common good one type kind of has a bit more fear and so they try to worst case scenario and dot their i's and cross their t's and just make sure that everything is going to go according to plan.

Emily:
And then there's another type that still has those same motivations, but um, they more go against their fear. So if they have this fear, they're going to attack it and be like, well, I have a fear of flying so I'm going to fly across the country. And that, and that's a, that's a broad one. But meaning they go against their fear. Sometimes it's harder for them to notice that they have fear because they seem kind of aggressive Enneagram sevens or the enthusiast. Um, they are just so much fun. They're always thinking of the next fun thing and, or the next business opportunity or the next thing. They're really trying to avoid emotional pain, but they sure are a lot of fun as they're trying to avoid it. Enneagram eights are our bosses or leaders. Um, they just have a, they do not want to be controlled. They want and they come off as assertive, uh, just knowing what they want be a boss or leader, um, because they don't want to be caught being vulnerable.

Emily:
And Enneagram nines are the Peacemakers, which is ironic that we're right next to eight there. And we just don't want any conflict, mainly because we don't want to be disconnected from anyone. We want connection and peace at all costs, but that sometimes means we put down our own needs and desires.

Monica:
So it's really good teaser, a little appetizers of, you know, that sounds like it. You could fit any of that or, I mean, they all sound so fascinating...

Emily:
And we, I like to say we need all of them. There is none that are better or worse. We need all of these types to make the world run.

Monica:
Awesome. Now, final question, and this is a question I'm asking everybody is what's one thing or event, um, person who helped you become Emily today? And it can be funny. It could be deep. It could be. Yeah.

Emily:
Um, well I will actually say both my parents, I couldn't decide. I don't want to leave either of them out, but I would definitely say both my parents, I hear both my mom's voice and my dad's voice in my head a lot, in a very good way. You know, my mom is an Enneagram one, the perfectionist reformer and my dad is an Enneagram three, the achiever. And so I, I think I try to be detailed and get on it sometimes from my mom and I try to go after it sometimes for my dad and both of them. Uh, they have, they are by far my biggest cheerleaders. Just, I mean, in fact to the point, my husband's like, oh my gosh. Like in their eyes you can do no wrong. They set you up well of, uh, they're, they're, they're my biggest cheerleaders.

Monica:
They believe in you. And they help you to be brave. Yes. It's amazing because you could see how if you have sort of perfectionist or achieving tendencies, you know, and I to be honest, see that all the time that that can go the other way for kids of those kind of personalities. And so it's so cool that that actually is, you pull from their toolbox and it's an encouraging thing.

Emily:
It was just in love, love, love and encouragement. Not condemnation or pushy and kind of, yeah. Like it was cheerleader not, yes.

Monica:
That is really cool cause I don't think I've ever heard that before. That's really cool.

Emily:
They've very, very good job. Yeah.

Monica:
Well thank you so much. This was so fun. I love this. I mean I love what you're doing and it's really inspiring. I love your sort of mission. I don't know if that's too strong of a word,

Emily:
That's what I feel like it is.

Monica:
Increasing compassion in yourself and increasing compassion in other people's and compassion for each other. Yeah. It's just beautiful.

Emily:
Well, thank you. Thanks for this opportunity.

Monica:
Yeah, it's awesome.